Hi Cory, (01)
I guess I see your definition of "contracted" as a sub-set of your
definition of "emergent". Where do you draw the line and when is it
important? (02)
I wasn't going to go so far as (grid-like) agents, because in a
messaging environment (which is ultimately what we're talking about
here), the only way to do that is to embed logic into the message
itself. To me, at the point where you go beyond reaction to state
transition events, there's no way it'll really work. Are you going to
allow me to execute arbitrary code inside your critical business
system? I'm not prepared to do that, and the reality is, I don't think
it's necessary. (03)
Really, (grid-like) agents are just a type of service requester in the
way that I view SOA implementation. Like many things, this is based on
your perspective. Which moves: the mountain or Mohammed? (Bear in
mind, while I read a little about the grid efforts about a year ago, it
wasn't at a tremendous level of depth) (04)
ast (05)
On Fri, 2006-03-31 at 14:04, Cory Casanave wrote:
> Just as a point of interest, we could identify 3 kinds of community
> behavior;
> * Directed (Implies a director)
> * Contracted (Agreed behavior, does not imply a director - this is most of
> SOA)
> * Emergent (Group behavior emerges from common traits or behavior of
> individual - this is most of "nature")
>
> Contracted behavior is a very human thing that we have now imparted to our
> machines. Our machines previously required directed behavior (the "workflow
> manager" instead of SOA contracts).
>
> Emergent behavior - such as can be seen in an ant colony, is very
> interesting and what some of the agent community has explored. However
> emergent behavior does imply some shared environment or (probably
> contracted) method of exchanging information - perhaps more as event
> notifications. But in the emergent case there is much less agreement but
> there is some level of common behavior. Emergent behavior probably comes
> from some kind of evolution.
>
> SOA can support all 3 kinds of behavior, but the very common case of
> creating and meeting obligations (from commerce to fire a missile) is
> generally contracted behavior.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: soa-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:soa-forum-
> > bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andrew S. Townley
> > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:24 PM
> > To: Service-Oriented Architecture CoP
> > Subject: RE: [soa-forum] Business Need for SOA (Was SOA Semantic
> > Variation )
> >
> >
> > Hi Metz,
> >
> > I just wanted to address one of your points, because I believe that this
> > clarification is crucial to understanding where I'm coming from with
> > this line of thinking.
> >
> > On Thu, 2006-03-30 at 19:20, Metz Rebekah wrote:
> > > One of the largest benefits of autonomy is the ability to work
> > >
> > > co-operatively to accomplish a larger goal. However, this "directed"
> > > or
> > >
> > > "cooperative autonomy" is only effective if everyone fully understands
> > >
> > > what they are supposed to do and have the ability to do it.
> > >
> > > [->] I agree with your assertion of directed vs. cooperative
> > > autonomy. I believe there is a continuum between these two extremes.
> > > I would liken the first to the hierarchical structure of the military
> > > and the second to a think tank or research institution. What we see
> > > though is that there are a range of organizational (community)
> > > structures that work in between these extremes. My sense is that
> > > within those various organizational structures; not everyone fully
> > > understands what they are supposed to do, nor do they have the ability
> > > to fully do it. Nevertheless, the overall organization can be
> > > successful. Essentially, the community becomes self-healing.
> >
> > Actually, in this case I was lumping them together, not separating
> > them. Although, I do agree that in practice there is some difference.
> > However, in any hierarchical organization (that is at all successful),
> > there is a certain amount of delegation to people at all levels. This
> > delegation also provides the context and the reasoning necessary for
> > action. The results of that action may be directed if they are
> > delegated from someone who has a vision or goal in mind. They may also
> > not provide all of the information available. Perhaps my use of "fully"
> > in this case was misleading. What I actually meant was that they have
> > enough information to perform the task to which they have been assigned,
> > but the successful completion of that task will further the goals of the
> > organization or individual who originally assigned it.
> >
> > In my mind, the only difference between "directed autonomy" vs
> > "collective autonomy" is what you alluded to in your reply--dependent
> > vs. independent action. However, the net results are the same because
> > the successful results of either directed or collective action
> > (hopefully) provides benefits to the community.
> >
> > ast
> >
> > --
> > Join me in Dubrovnik, Croatia on May 8-10th when I will be speaking at
> > InfoSeCon 2006. For more information, see www.infosecon.org.
> >
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Join me in Dubrovnik, Croatia on May 8-10th when I will be speaking at
InfoSeCon 2006. For more information, see www.infosecon.org. (06)
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