RE: [soa-forum] RE: loose coupling

[g.thomas@xxxxxxx]

i think CoI's 'designed by contract'
is the next pragmatic step for eGov/fed-lob's/etc. our work encompasses
architected and autonomic techniques, and we're always interested in mediation
solutions where dbc is either violated or otherwise impossible. 

-g

"David RR Webber (XML)" <david@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: soa-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

08/17/2006 04:11 PM

Please respond to
"Service-Oriented Architecture CoP" <soa-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

To	"Service-Oriented Architecture CoP" <soa-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
cc
Subject	RE: [soa-forum] RE: loose coupling

<snip>this relaxes
technical and business coupling, leading to market driven (CoI) composite
apps, and tech/bus (insert your favorite abused term here...) 'agility'.</snip>
 
Yes - this is indeed part of the idea - however
- I would venture that certain avid static technology adoption has in fact
merely re-inforced the status-quo from the older EDI-based exchanges where
the norm is highly brittle and tight interchange coupling that both fails
at the merest data varience / and requires hands-on maintenance and change
control to keep everything aligned across a CoP.
 
Hardly the fulfilment of next generation
dynamic information exchange and easy adoption + plug-and-play for Tier-3
participants and solution providers!
 
Clearly more worked needed in terms of determining
not only what contributes to loose coupling - but also what emphatically
does not - and the absence thereof too.
 
 ; -)
 
DW



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [soa-forum] RE: loose coupling
From: g.thomas@xxxxxxx
Date: Thu, August 17, 2006 3:35 pm
To: "Service-Oriented Architecture CoP" <soa-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>


The SCA spec does a reasonable job of describing loose coupling based on
independence of service deployment (see osoa.org). When services are composed
(into b2b/g2g/a2a collaborations) across disparate (in/out-sourced, org/geo
boundary crossing) service hosts (app-srv/containers), this relaxes technical
and business coupling, leading to market driven (CoI) composite apps, and
tech/bus (insert your favorite abused term here...) 'agility'. SCA by no
means has a monopoly on this idea, just wanted to point to something that
does a reasonable job of trying to distinguish tight/loose coupling in
the context of an emerging SOA standard. 

-g

"Metz Rebekah" <metz_rebekah@xxxxxxx>
Sent by: soa-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
08/17/2006 01:29 PM

Please respond to
"Service-Oriented Architecture CoP" <soa-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

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Subject	RE: [soa-forum] Question/Issue for the SOA CoP

---

From: soa-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:soa-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of David RR Webber (XML)
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 1:18 PM
To: Service-Oriented Architecture CoP
Subject: RE: [soa-forum] Question/Issue for the SOA CoP
  
[->] David, 
 <snip> and bravo! 
  
I've also seen the need to return to the critical topic of "loose
coupling".  Everyone claims they are doing loosely coupled implementations,
but are they really?!? 
  
What does loose coupling REALLY mean - both in terms of transport layer
integration, AND information exchange integration?!
[->] I applaud your recognition that what the phrase ‘loose coupling’
intends to convey is not just integration at a technology level –
it is at the business level!  There are certainly many aspects of
integration and I believe that all of them have an impact on ‘loosely
coupled.’  What is actually loosely coupled?  If two systems
both speak http, does that mean that when those systems are used as tools
that they are ‘loosely coupled?’; are the humans that rely
on those tools ‘loosely coupled?’ 
  
The XML/edi Group first coined the term 'loosely coupled' back in 1998
- but since then it has taken on a marketing gloss - without folks really
articulating what and how their toolsets actually support it.
[->] In a recent conversation with a colleague, we also spoke of ‘coarse-grained’
in this same vein.  When is something ‘fine-grained vs. coarse-grained
is largely dependent on perspective.  
  
Providing clear specifications and standards in support of loose coupling
remains just as tough now as back in 1998. 
  
Fortunately folks have at least learned now what does NOT work with XML
and schema - and are now returning to the well to draw out what insights
they need to leverage and understand to resolve the operational issues.
  
Hints: key words - Role, Context, self-adapting, fault tolerant, agile,
simple XML.... 
[->] I also spent several years in the field of grid computing research,
just as it started to migrate toward a web services based architecture.
 I would venture that there are many lessons in terms of context,
adaptation, agility and tolerance that could be learned from the grid community
on these topics. 
  
DW 
[->] Rebekah 
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [soa-forum] Question/Issue for the SOA CoP
From: "ajit kapoor" <ajitorsarah@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, August 16, 2006 6:18 pm
To: "Service-Oriented Architecture CoP" <soa-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>


Chris, 
  
Thanks for sharing your work. I must say I agree with you in so much as
it addresses the necessary technology conditions that must be met to have
a SOA paradigm, but the sufficiency has largely been ignored (may be based
on assumption that people and process based practices will follow).
  
I have been quite intrigued by the "SOA Buzz" industry wide but
am concerned by the lack of understanding of the architecture (if viewed
only from a technology viewpoint). The best practices should be addressed
fundamentally from the view point of standard processes, people/organizational
culture (a basic propensity to hinder change)and then overlay the technical
layer on it. Also even on the technology front the standards are still
in flux and the best efforts to integrate higher layer of the SOA protocol
stack must rely on the WS Interoperability forum. Vendors are selling point
solutions for the higher layer protocols and we will end up creating EAI
equivalent of the SOA integration problem. Where will the values be in
terms of reusability, etc. I believe the DoD and Government in general
as part of the GIG/NC initiative must take the lead in coalescing multiple
standards on all the fronts of people, process, and technology so as to
start talking about best practices building blocks.
  
I look forward to other comments and potential recommendations. The result
of this exercise should be, in my opinion, a roadmap from current SOA platform
to the desired state with People, process and technologies roadmap defined
in an evolutionary and standards way. 
  
regards, 
ajit kapoor 
Lockheed Martin 
EIS/CTO 
(retiring October 1, 2006) 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Chris
Gunderson 
To: 'Service-Oriented
Architecture CoP' 
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:32 PM 
Subject: RE: [soa-forum] Question/Issue for the SOA CoP
  
Brand, I’m working on a project sponsored by DISA Joint Interoperability
Test Command.  A key component is the need to develop appropriate
SOA implementation and validation and verification guidance.  The
idea is to provide a useful service to GIG software developers that encourages
re-use of best practices and code.   
  
The attached is a work in progress.   
  
So….1.  We have a mandate to do this work.  2. We have
no “not-invented-here†issues. 3. We want to port as many industrial
best practices as possible.  4.  We’re on a fast track.
  
We welcome any and all help from the SOA Forum.  The attached is very
much a work in progress with no pride of authorship. 
  
Best, Chris 
  
Chris Gunderson 
Research Associate Professor of Information Science
Naval Postgraduate School 
Principal Investigator, W2COG and Netcentric Certification Office Initiatives
(O) 703 262 5332 
(C) 831 224 5182

---

From: soa-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:soa-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Niemann.Brand@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:08 PM
To: soa-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [soa-forum] Question/Issue for the SOA CoP
  
I have been asked about the ownership/governance issue and whether any
best practices exist for SOA. We covered governance in the First SOA Conference
for E-Government, but I don't recall specifically ownership being discussed.
Any suggestions, references, etc. would be appreciated.
  
Thanks, Brand

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