<Quote>
I for one (and I am most certainly not alone) am quite impressed with
what OASIS have done. If you're looking to their reference model for
definitions, forget it. If you want an architecture, forget that too but
it is a very complete and useable model of what features of a service
must be documented and how they relate to each other. I am using it
actively.
</Quote> (01)
Speaking as a current (and founding) member of the OASIS SOA-RM TC: It's
great to hear that you are actively using our work, and thank you very
much for the positive feedback. Negative feedback is, I believe, just as
equally as important as positive feedback (and in some ways even more
so). So your feedback on why you found the definitions strongly lacking
(which is what I gather from your comment) is very valuable to us as
well, and we welcome your thoughts. (02)
Though our recent public comment period on our Committee Draft has
already closed, and our next public review will only apply to the
updates made during our current comment resolution process, you are
always welcome to submit a comment to the SOA-RM TC using the "Submit a
Comment" button on the TC home page. It can then be considered at the
next appropriate review period, even if it means waiting until the next
version of the spec. (03)
Thanks again for your valuable feedback. (04)
Joe (05)
Joseph Chiusano
Associate
Booz Allen Hamilton (06)
700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100
Washington, DC 20005
O: 202-508-6514
C: 202-251-0731
Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com (07)
-----Original Message-----
From: soa-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:soa-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Boardman, Stuart
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:16 AM
To: Chris Harding; Service-Oriented Architecture CoP; Ken Laskey;
soa@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [soa-forum] RE: Definitions of SOA (08)
I'd just like to add my twopence worth to all this. (09)
I liked Andras's extra slide. The idea of a more general SO anything is
valuable. It's been mentioned before but I thought that one slide said
it very well. (010)
I disagree with Graham's change on the basis that it adds nothing
useful. Yes, the original text could be misinterpreted but the main
thing it tries to emphasize is the business driven, as opposed to IT
driven nature of SO(A). (011)
I agree with Chris that we should just put this definition to bed. From
my point of view we could easily add Andras's slide but not if it's
going to kick off a new round of discussion. A definition per se can be
necessary but is unlikely to be sufficient. That's why we need to get on
with the new tasks and that's where I believe the Open Group can make
the greatest contribution. (012)
I for one (and I am most certainly not alone) am quite impressed with
what OASIS have done. If you're looking to their reference model for
definitions, forget it. If you want an architecture, forget that too but
it is a very complete and useable model of what features of a service
must be documented and how they relate to each other. I am using it
actively. (013)
regards (014)
Stuart (015)
Stuart Boardman
Director of Consulting
CGI Europe and Asia-Pacific
Tel: +31 (0)70 378 7165
Fax: +31 (0)70 378 7100
Mobile: +31 (0)621 574 080
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Harding [mailto:c.harding@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 08 May 2006 16:57
To: Service-Oriented Architecture CoP; Ken Laskey; soa@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [soa-forum] RE: Definitions of SOA (016)
Hi - (017)
Andras, you are absolutely on track. However, for the benefit of the
folk on the soa-forum list, who will not be familiar with inner Open
Group workings, I think we should clarify the basis of this discussion,
and perhaps also limit its scope. (018)
The purpose of The Open Group's work on a definition of SOA was to
clarify our understanding of what SOA is, as an aid to developing our
SOA Work Program. We (very logically) took the view that, before
launching various SOA related activities, we should understand (a) what
SOA is, and (b) what value The Open Group can bring to it. As you point
out, any Open Group activities in this area must contribute to The Open
Group's mission - to (019)
drive the creation of Boundaryless Information Flow. (For those not
familiar with The Open Group, see http://www.opengroup.org/ for who we
are and what we mean by Boundaryless Information Flow.) (020)
I circulated the basic definition of SOA that we in The Open Group came
up with to the Service-Oriented Architecture CoP list
(soa-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) in response to a mail sent by Cory containing (021)
the draft OMG definition. I thought that this was a natural and useful
contribution to the thread. It was not my intention to claim any kind of (022)
special validity or superior status for The Open Group definition. One
of the major strengths of the English language is that different
definitions for the same term can coexist. I'm not going to insist on
the precedence of the Concise Oxford Dictionary, for example, any more
than I expect Andras to insist on Chambers. There are and will continue
to be many different definitions of SOA, and the SOACoP will hopefully
find value in comparing and contrasting them - and perhaps also in
picking holes and making improvements. (023)
For those from OASIS that have pointed to the OASIS Reference Model and
its definition, we did have a draft of that model as part of our input,
together with other definitions from other sources. We don't in any way
wish to minimise the value of that work (and I would encourage any
readers of this mail who have not already read it to do so). But, from
our particular perspective, we came up with something slightly
different, hopefully not as regards the basic concepts, but as regards
the words in (024)
which they are described. (025)
As to producing a better Open Group definition or, as I think we should
move on to now, building on it in other Open Group work, it will be more (026)
appropriate to do this within The Open Group than on
soa-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx If the SOACoP decides to develop its own
definition of SOA, then I'm sure that Open Group members who are also
members of the SOACoP will be happy to contribute, and The Open Group
will be happy for its definition of SOA to be an input. (027)
At 14:15 08/05/2006, Andras Szakal wrote:
>Chris,
>
>Please correct me if I am going astray....
>
>However, it was my impression (being in the board meetings) that we
were
>looking for areas in which the TOG could best add value to the SOA
>discussion.
>As such the definition team (not really a good name) was supposed to
define
>the elements of the SOA initiative as it related to Boundaryless
>Information Flow. As such we are not looking to create the definitive
SOA
>definition. Potentially the body of work we create will help provide
>insight into a greater definition.
>
>As an aside - I don't know many folks in the industry who are enamored
with
>the OASIS work to date.
>
>Regards,
>
>Andras
>
>
>
>Andras Robert Szakal
>Chief Architect IBM Federal Software Group Distinguished Engineer &
>Senior Certified IT Architect Member Open Group Board of Directors Tie
>Line: 930-9215 External Line: 202-595-1678 text message:
>andras1@xxxxxxxxx
>email: aszakal@xxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>
>
> Ken Laskey
> <klaskey@xxxxxxxx
> g>
To
> Service-Oriented Architecture
CoP
> 05/06/2006 01:03 <soa-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> AM
cc
> Andras
Szakal/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS,
> "Chris Harding"
> <c.harding@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Rob
> Cardwell
> <RCardwell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> soa@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
Subject
> Re: [soa-forum] RE: Definitions
of
> SOA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Any interesting thread and certainly one that has occurred in numerous
>places at numerous times. Again, I'd like to point you to the SOA-RM,
>currently going through final editing to incorporate comments from its
>60-day public review. The PR version can be downloaded from
>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm/download.php/16628/
wd-soa-rm-pr1.pdf
>. It is relatively short and provides compact descriptions of both SOA
and
>service. As a reference model, it contains a minimum number of
concepts
>(such as service in the singular) from which more advanced concepts
(e.g. a
>combination of several services) can be readily derived. So far it has (028)
>been found to be fairly robust acting as a basis for the continuing
work in
>SOA reference architecture. As one of the editors, I'm not exactly
>impartial, but for those who haven't seen it, I think it is worth the
read.
>
>Back to occasional lurking,
>
>Ken
>
>On May 5, 2006, at 7:11 PM, Charles Mosher wrote:
>
> This could be addressed by generalizing the definition of
"customer"
> and
> "client" to include customers and clients within the
organization, as
> well as without. And I agree; it is often such internal
customers
> that
> first see the need and ROI for a service-based approach to the
> integration of company systems.
>
> I did notice that the concept of service partitioning, i.e.,
various
> specializations of services from the higher level business
> process/functional level (perform credit check) to the lower
level
> (retrieve customer record) is hard to describe with the layers
as
> they
> are depicted. In particular, services which can uniformly serve
up
> data
> (semantically and structurally mediated and rationalized) to
business
> services that are built on top of them are likely an important
first
> step to realizing a SOA system. These fundamental services are
not
> really represented in this architecture, where such detail is
> relegated
> to the standards/implementation layer. There is the "thinking
about
> services throughout" admonition, which perhaps ameliorates this
> concern
> somewhat.
>
> My 2 centavos.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Chuck
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: soa-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:soa-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Graham
Meaden
> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 3:33 PM
> To: Andras Szakal; Chris Harding
> Cc: Service-Oriented Architecture CoP; soa@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [soa-forum] RE: Definitions of SOA
>
> FOR CONSIDERATION:
>
> I suggest an alteration to part of the definition enclosed with
the
> presentation.
>
> Having worked as an Architect for a number of organisations with
> 50,000+
> personnel, the need to flatten organisations, remove silos and
> achieve
> agility is a perennial theme. For organisations of such size,
the
> application of a service oriented approach to organisation and
> service
> design of internal services is as valid to the application of
S.O. to
> the provisioning of external services. On slide 3, the phrase
> <business
> layer> "A set of services that an enterprise wants to expose to
> customers and clients" seems of exclude applying S.O. to the
internal
> design of organisations. I believe this to be too prescriptive.
I
> suggest a change.
>
>
> Graham Meaden
> DIRECTOR, Enterprise Architect
>
>
>
> Celestial Consulting Ltd.
> Mobile: + 44 7770 672 442
> Telephone: + 44 870 421 5601
> Facsimile: + 44 20 7900 6547
> Email: gmeaden@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Skype id: gmeaden.celestial.co.uk
> Skype in: + 44 20 7193 0565
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andras Szakal [mailto:aszakal@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 05 May 2006 14:50
> To: Chris Harding
> Cc: soa@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Service-Oriented Architecture CoP
> Subject: Re: Definitions of SOA
>
> Team,
>
> I offer this additional chart which depicts the outcome of our
> discussion
> last week. I am still working the chart but it's a decent start.
We
> agreed
> that SOA is actually only one aspect of this very interesting
> industry
> initiative that needs our focus.
>
> I think we need to focus on service orientation as a superset of
the
> SOA
> discussion. In fact one could argue that service orientation may
be
> implemented by a combination of architectural styles and not
just
> SOA/web
> services.
>
> (See attached file: Service_Orientation_Def_v1.ppt)
>
> Regards,
>
> Andras
>
>
>
> Andras Robert Szakal
> Chief Architect IBM Federal Software Group
> Distinguished Engineer & Senior Certified IT Architect
> Member Open Group Board of Directors
> Tie Line: 930-9215
> External Line: 202-595-1678
> text message: andras1@xxxxxxxxx
> email: aszakal@xxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>
> Chris Harding
>
> <c.harding@opengr
>
> oup.org>
> To
> Service-Oriented
Architecture
> CoP
>
> 05/05/2006 08:31
<soa-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
>
> AM "'Service-Oriented
> Architecture
>
> CoP'" <
> soa-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
> cc
> soa@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> Subject
> Definitions of SOA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi -
>
> As a further update, here is the definition of SOA that was
presented
> at
> The Open Group conference last week (and which we have shared
with
> the
> OMG).
>
> SOA is an architectural style that supports service orientation
>
> *Service orientation
> A way of a way of thinking in terms of services and service
based
> development and the outcomes that services bring
>
> *Service
> A logical representation of a repeatable business activity that
has a
> specified outcome (e.g., check customer credit; provide weather
data,
> consolidate drilling reports), is self-contained and maybe
composed
> of
> other Services. It is a black box to consumers of the Service
>
> *Architectural Style
> The combination of distinctive features in which Enterprise
> Architecture
> is
> done, or expressed
>
> *The SOA Architectural style's distinctive features:
> - Based on the design of the services comprising an
enterprise's
> (or inter-enterprise) business processes. Services mirror
> real-world
> business activity
> - Service representation utilizes business descriptions.
Service
> representation requires providing its context (including
> business
> process, goal, rule, policy, service interface and service
> component)
> and service orchestration to implement service
> - Has unique requirements on infrastructure. Implementations
are
> recommended to use open standards, realize interoperability
and
> location transparency.
> - Implementations are environment specific, they are
constrained or
> enabled by context and must be described within their
context.
> - Requires strong governance of service representation and
> implementation
> - Requires a "Litmus Test", which determined a "good service"
>
> At 20:31 04/05/2006, Cory Casanave wrote:
>
> As an update from the OMG meeting last week, the SOA SIG
> adopted
> the
> following definition of SOA;
>
>
>
> Service Oriented Architecture is an architectural style
for a
> community of providers and consumers of services to
achieve
> mutual
> value, that:
> Allows participants in the communities to work
together
> with
> minimal co-dependence or technology dependence
> Specifies the contracts to which organizations,
people
> and
> technologies must adhere in order to participate in
the
> community
> Provides for business value and business processes
to be
> realized by the community
> Allows for a variety of technology to be used to
> facilitate
> interactions within the community
>
>
>
>
>
> The corresponding definition of service has not yet been
> finalized
> but the sense of the group is that there would be both a
> business/domain centric notion of service as well as an
> interaction
> focused definition.
>
>
>
> In both cases this seems to fit well with the notion of
SOA
> that
> is
> evolving in this group and in the SOA Demo.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Cory Casanave
>
>
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>
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
> +++++
>
>
>=======================================================================
=
> Dr. Christopher J. Harding
> Forum Director for SOA and Semantic Interoperability
> THE OPEN GROUP
> Thames Tower, 37-45 Station Road, Reading RG1 1LX, UK
> Mailto:c.harding@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Phone (mobile): +44 774 063 1520
> http://www.opengroup.org
>
******************************************************************
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> Member Meetings - July 17-21, 2006
> http://opengroup.org/miami2006/
>
>=======================================================================
=
> TOGAF is a trademark of The Open Group
>
>
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>---
>Ken Laskey
>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934
>7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379
>McLean VA 22102-7508
>
>
>
>
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Regards, (030)
Chris
+++++ (031)
========================================================================
Dr. Christopher J. Harding
Forum Director for SOA and Semantic Interoperability
THE OPEN GROUP
Thames Tower, 37-45 Station Road, Reading RG1 1LX, UK
Mailto:c.harding@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Phone (mobile): +44 774 063 1520
http://www.opengroup.org
******************************************************************
IT Architecture Practitioners Conference
Hyatt Regency, Coral Gables, FL July 17-19, 2006
Member Meetings - July 17-21, 2006
http://opengroup.org/miami2006/
========================================================================
TOGAF is a trademark of The Open Group
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