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Andrew,
I share the concern here that this approach is not pluralistic and
encompassing - but instead narrowly focused and constrained.
Obviously with demo's it hard to chew off too much - but my sense is
too much is being left on the table / glossed over.
I concur that the priniciples illustrated do not reflect enough of a
multi-integration scenario. If real life was this easy - we'd
have nothing to prove here!!!
Plus - we can already see sites like http://webservices.amazon.com which appear
to mostly do what the demo is proposing - and are fully operational
( does this really reflect SOA for eGov?).
One glaring aspect left on the table (that Amazon.com also
illustrates) is the need to authenticate partners and provide a secure
access model. The government really has not got this
correct yet IMHO. It either goes wildly the one way - requiring
excessive sign-up criteria taking days/weeks to acquire - or throws the
door wide open and leaves participitants potentially exposed to abuse -
and in either case, management and control and scalability are
indeterminant.
Probably better to address the conceptual vision of what an SOA
constitutes in an eGov context - before we rush into providing demo's
of raw technology...
It might also make sense - given that this topic is obviously
extensive - to in fact break down the SOA domain into descreet parts -
and then look at producing demo's for individual parts. That I
believe would be clearer for people and give better balance around what
choices are out there and key requirements to be fulfilled - to be able
to constitute a robust SOA environment.
Thanks, DW
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re:
[soa-forum] RE: SOA Community Demo Con Call
From: "Andrew S.
Townley" <andrew.townley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, March
23, 2006 8:55 am
To: Brand Niemann <bniemann@xxxxxxx>,
Service-Oriented Architecture
CoP
<soa-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hi all,
I'm not
sure if the conference call is open or not, so I'll just give
some
initial feedback on the straw man here--assuming that you want a
few
opinions about the specification. Please don't take these as
being
over critical, because I'm just trying to help.
I think
what you guys are trying to do is great, but I'm wondering
what
implementing the spec as-is will prove. The reason is
that, if I've
read the document correctly, you're effectively
talking about a "green
field" type of project with centralized
control and everything being
defined by MDA. I don't really
see how this will prove anything other
than SOAP/WSDL + WS-* will
allow you to do distributed computing. You
could do this with
CORBA/J2EE and tunnel everything over port 80 with
standardized data
formats.
I think the demo will only really provide value if it
takes a more
real-world look at the scenario. I think this can
be accomplished by
including the following things:
1. Including evolution of a message definition and, since
you're
using WSDL, a service interface,
and
2. including some sort of recognition that in an
actual scenario,
you're more likely going
to be dealing with a variety of message
types which are structurally different but represent the
same
semantic concept.
If you
don't take these things into account, you're not really dealing
with
SOA, but a very limited-use, vertical Web services network. I
also
think, to be realistic, you're going to need to deal with
certain fault
conditions to prove how flexible the SOA community is
when things
break. Are there intermediaries?
Also, from
my reading of the initial draft, it's not clear how BEPL will
be
applied. Is this just to allow implementation of agents using
a
workflow or orchestration engine, or is it intended to
represent
Choreography-style service instructions embedded in the
message?
Like I said, I'm not trying to be hyper-critical, I'm
just very curious
to see how these things work in a "genuine" WS-*
model vs. what we're
doing. As I'm in Ireland, I'm not sure
how practical it is for me to
actively contribute, but I am
interested in participating in this effort
in some
capacity.
Thanks for listening,
ast
On Thu,
2006-03-23 at 01:47, Brand Niemann wrote:
> Thanks and I will try
to make this. I am speaking at a conference just
> before this.
Brand
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: Cory Casanave
>
To: 'Cory Casanave' ; 'Service-Oriented
Architecture CoP'
> Sent: Tuesday,
March 21, 2006 8:51 PM
> Subject:
[soa-forum] RE: SOA Community Demo Con Call
>
>
>
Ok this is set for 11AM, Thursday March 23rd
>
> Phone
number: 641-297-5900
>
>
Access code: 41677
>
>
>
> As usual, not all
could make it â?' but most can so lets go for
>
it.
>
>
-Cory Casanave
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________
>
> From:
Cory Casanave [mailto:cbc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 2:20 PM
>
To: 'Service-Oriented Architecture
CoP'
> Subject: SOA Community Demo
Con Call
>
>
>
>
> I would like
to propose a con-call for the core team of the
>
SOA demo this Thursday @ 10:30 â?' 11:30. if
there are any
> critical conflicts
please let me know.
>
>
Current demo straw man:
>
http://colab.cim3.net/file/work/SOACoP/SOA%20Community%20of%20Practice%20Demo.doc
(Unchanged)
>
>
>
>
This is an open process but there will certainly
be a core
> team that will be
organizing the effort and doing a lot of the
>
work. At this point anyone who asks is part of the
core team.
>
>
People who have expressed interest in being on the core
team:
>
>
· Allen Matthew, Joe Chiusano
(BAH)
>
>
· Greg Lomow (Bearingpoint)
>
> ·
Larry Johnson (Tethers End/OMG)
>
> ·
Brand Niemann (Government Sponsor - Participation
>
Assumed)
>
>
>
> Meeting goal â?'
initial plan to start work on the demo.
>
> ·
Validate/raise issues with current spec
>
> ·
Governance/Work structure
>
> ·
Identify participant roles
>
>
>
> --Roles--
>
>
Executable Enterprise Architecture Role
>
> The operational role in the
project we (DAT) are volunteering
>
for is to produce an Enterprise-MDA architecture of the
>
subject community. This will identify the
roles,
> collaboration and community
interactions. This can then be
>
used by the group to validate the architecture in more
detail
> and then to produce
(generate) the candidate service
>
specifications that would be implemented by the participants.
>
>
>
>
Meeting logistics to be sent out once the time is
confirmed.
>
>
>
>
Regards,
>
> Cory Casanave
>
> Data Access
Technologies, Inc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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at
InfoSeCon 2006. For more information, see
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